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Author Topic: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem  (Read 6959 times)

Atchy

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Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« on: February 17, 2013, 06:08:19 PM »

Hey guys! First of all I'm sorry if this has been covered somewhere in the forum. I'm reasonably new to airbrushing and I came across this problem just now.

For the most part I have been using Tamiya acrylics thinned down with metholated spirits and I must say that has always gone down a treat. This method has almost NEVER given me any grief.

Looking through the internet I noticed that a lot of modelers favored Model Color paints by Vajello. I was curious so I wandered into a few shops and to my great surprise I was able to track it down, and it had a massive range and was a fraction cheaper than Tamiya...... AWESOME. I asked the guy in the store about thinning it down, he recommended just using water to thin is and clean the gun. AWESOME AGAIN. Until I tried it.........

I just had the worse time of it. The paint refused to spread thinly, the color was inconsistent and gluggy, and it clogged up my airbrush like there was no tomorrow. NO WAY could I clean it out with water, needed a good amount of force and turps to get the stuff out!

Please help! I would love to get good results out of this as the range of colors would make it so much easier to experiment and get more complex and interesting results. Do you guys think I've done something wrong? Is this brand not as good as I've been led to believe? All advice greatly appreciated!
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Jimmy The Guz

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Re: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2013, 06:45:27 PM »

Try using  the same bands thinner if they have one.  From what I've found using tap water to thin out acrylics has caused me more problems than using the correct thinner.  Also you may not have thinned out the paint enough which is why your airbrush may clog.  Otherwise it could be the pressure you are spraying at?

There are many members here that have great websites and YouTube channels (The Ghost of Zeon and Mokana Man to name a few) which may help.  And maybe this thread in the Engineering Corps may help too.  http://gundamaustralia.com/forum/index.php?topic=1096.0

I'm no pro but it may help.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 06:48:07 PM by Jimmy The Guz »
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Atchy

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Re: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2013, 06:49:12 PM »

Cheers for the quick response! I figured getting the correct thinner was probably the way to go. I'm using a double action Badger airbrush at 10psi if that's what you're referring to with pressure. I'm just a bit frustrated that I was told that tap water was the way to go!

I was curious if anyone else came across the problem or has had better results with Model Color paints perhaps? :)
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Jimmy The Guz

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Re: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 07:04:30 PM »

I use Tamiya and Gunze and a Badger double action as well.  I tend to spray around 15 to 20 psi for most paints due to my airbrush being siphon fed.  

I'm sure one of the pros here in the GAF will have more of an idea about the Model Colour paints.   :)

« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 09:02:44 PM by Jimmy The Guz »
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TheGhostofZeon

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Re: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 07:11:43 PM »

Yeah, I had the same problem recently with the Model Air range from Vallejo. That range is meant to be prethinned for airbrush use but the paint would dry and clog the brush. Paint was well mixed but I found that thinning with water was the only way I could get it to spray correctly.

This meant that more airbrushing was needed as the paint was much thinner that its meant to be but it went on fine after that.

Atchy

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Re: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2013, 07:25:24 PM »

So wait........ you were ONLY able to get it to work with water? :S

This would seem to contradict my results........

Also you mentioned your airbrush was syphon fed. It sounds as if we have the same brush here, why would you recommend the higher 15-20psi ? Im pretty sure mine is at 10 atm.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 07:28:34 PM by Atchy »
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thegunny

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Re: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2013, 07:28:25 PM »

Vallejo is a resin based acrylic not solvent based like Gunze & Tamiya. Whilst it can be thinned with water it is best to use their own thinner as it doesn't directly effect the properties of the paint. I've been using it for years and it does take a lot of getting used to. I use at least 20psi if not higher and a medium to largish size needle as I found that it doesn't like the smaller needle sizes. It is also temperature sensitive and does not spray well when cold. One thing I've found is that it's best to take the nozzle off the bottle and stir the paint as shaking sometimes doesn't get all the resin mixed properly, especially if it has been sitting for a long time as it settles out in a lump in the bottom and this translates through to lumpy bits in the airbrush which will give clogging as well.

One thing that I've found over the years is not to thin it with solvents as it will just end up as a gluggy mess. Clean up with water first then use IPA to finish off. Before starting spray a small amount of water through the airbrush just to make sure you've got no solvent left. Model Colour is very durable when it does work and doesn't run nearly as much as the solvent based acrylics if you get a bit heavy handed.
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Atchy

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Re: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2013, 07:31:17 PM »

Brilliant! Thanks for the info! :)

I get the impression I've been somewhat babied into airbrushing with my n00b-proof Tamiyas :P good the know the results do get better with practice!
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thegunny

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Re: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2013, 07:39:28 PM »

One thing I should have mentioned is that it does go off unlike solvent based paints. I've had bottles where it has gone like curdled milk and no amount of thinning, straining or sacrifices to to the gods will help.

Another think you need to take into consideration is all tap water is not the same. As this paint is resin based it does react differently with whatever your local water treatment plant is adding to the water. I live in an area that uses bore water and it definitely doesn't like whatever is done to it. If I use water to thin I use rain water or distilled water. 
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Jimmy The Guz

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Re: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2013, 09:11:55 PM »

So wait........ you were ONLY able to get it to work with water? :S

This would seem to contradict my results........

Also you mentioned your airbrush was siphon fed. It sounds as if we have the same brush here, why would you recommend the higher 15-20psi ? Im pretty sure mine is at 10 atm.

I originally sprayed at 10psi when I used my old gravity feed AB.  Since switching to the gravity fed Badger 175, I've found I get a better spray/finish when I have sprayed at 15 to 20 psi with well thinned paint (1 to 3 ratio is what I try for).  It also depends on weather I am doing big or small pieces, the color I'm using and the finial finish of the paint once it has been sprayed.

Again this was all trail and error for me.  If the paint doesn't go on the way I like it then I strip down the part and re-spray at the different psi setting.

If you find that 10psi works best for you then keep using it bro. 

Hope this helps :)
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Atchy

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Re: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2013, 09:16:46 PM »

Well I'm not finding it works best atm :P So I will try for more! When you say 1 to 3 you mean 1 part pain to 3 part thinners yeah? Just double checking everyone seems to use this short hand terminology without saying blatantly which is which :p

I just check the parts I sprayed again. Loving the look of the pain, but itll all have to be stripped back and sprayed properly. Should look awesome when its thin and even :) I'll chuck up some pics when I get it right!
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Jimmy The Guz

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Re: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2013, 09:24:05 PM »

Yeah mate.  Most people go for the consistency of milk when adding thinner to paint.  I have used 50/50 mix of paint and thinner which works ok for certain paints.  Then I experimented with using 1/3 paint and 2/3 thinner which worked really well for tamiya acrylic paint that I was using.  

Again this may vary depending on the type of paint you are using and how thin you need to get it to make it to spray well with an airbrush.

Its all part of the leaning process.  Thats half the fun.  Good luck Atchy :)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 09:25:13 PM by Jimmy The Guz »
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KaiK

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Re: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2013, 11:31:53 PM »

Bit of a fun fact, some Model Colour paints contain Cadmium and shouldn't be sprayed.

Definitely use water or Vallejo thinners with the Model Colour range. Some people also use a Model Colour + Vallejo Thinners + Vallejo Airbrush Cleaner mixture for their airbrush with great success. I've never tried this out myself since I've stopped using Vallejo paints.

Vallejo Model Colour have a great range of colours but tend to spray on a tad too thick for my liking, additionally they aren't as strong as Tamiya + Lacquer Thinner mixture or Mr Color solvent based acrylics.

Past configurations I've used are 1:3 mixture @ 18 psi 0.3 mm nozzle, 1:2 mixture @ 20 psi 0.5 mm nozzle and 1:1 @ 25 psi 0.5 mm all thinned with water (works with Vallejo Thinners too).

I'm rather surprised you get good flow @ 10 psi because usually to get that to work you need really thin paint (with thinners not water) and possibly a 0.2 or 0.3 mm nozzle.

If you want to stick with Vallejo I'd highly recommend finding the Model Air equivalent colour or use their range of thinners.
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Atchy

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Re: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2013, 01:50:15 PM »

Awesome thanks dude! I feel a bit silly I only just now realized "Model Air" meant airbrush paints. I kind of thought it was a range of paints for aircrafts, like how their other ranges are for specific genres of models :P Silly me! Just got some new paints and thinners and I'll try some more of this in a tick.

KaiK: you mentioned you've moved away from these paints, what do you now use? I'm not about to jump ships on a whim I'm just curious about all the different paints and the pros and cons.
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KaiK

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Re: Model Line paint + Airbrushing problem
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2013, 02:26:17 PM »

I primarily use Mr Color solvent based acrylics and on occasion Tamiya paints.

Mr Color is pretty must the same stuff as paint from a spray can. I use it because it dries/cures really fast and extremely hard, also it is the colour range that Bandai kits refer to. Metallic colours in this range are really good and aren't too speckly. Downside is they can be pretty hard to find in-stock and they're not the best thing for your health. There is also a Mr Hobby Aqueous colour range too.

Tamiya acrylics are pretty tough too if mixed with Tamiya Lacquer thinners. They're great for hand painting and colour match really well with their own enamel range of paints. Downside is they don't dry/cure as fast or hard as Mr Color paints and their metallic range is utter garbage in my opinion. Their range of colours is primarily suited for real life military vehicles.   
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