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Author Topic: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?  (Read 10026 times)

Sonar

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Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« on: October 12, 2010, 08:45:22 PM »

Confused?  ???

It's simple. Some paints are stronger than others and as a general rule can not be used on top of each other. If you are using different paints, you need to put the strongest paint down first, then the next, then the weakest.

Or else seperate them with a good layer of topcoat, but this comes with the condition that you are not mixing a topcoat with an improperly cured lacquer as topcoat out of a spray can is typically lacquer based, and some lacqer top coats can melt some acrylics if you're not careful. Always pays to test first.

There are three kinds of basic paint for models:

Lacquer (lacquer based)
Enamel (oil based)
Acrylic (water based)

and the strength goes in that order from strongest to weakest as well.

But it gets a little confusing... People tend to say oh I paint my models with acrylic, and then do an enamel panel line wash. Wait a minute, didn't you just say enamel will eat your acrylic? Yeah that's right, but the tip is that there's a layer of top coat/clear coat (same thing, different name) in between acting as a barrier.

People tend to use a gloss top coat in between layers where panel line washing is concerned because the enamel wash travels quicker and easier along a smooth, glossy surface and excess is cleaned up easier. A handy tip I've found is to thin your panel line wash enamel with a napthalene based lighter fluid (Zippo fluid) instead of enamel thinner as it won't eat through any top coat or underlying layers.

Same can be said for decals as they need a very smooth surface to adhere to to prevent silvering.

Conversely, a flat top coat is better for weathering as it has better texture for powders like pastels and weathering sets to adhere to.

Many people choose a flat finish as their final top coat, unless they are going for a factory fresh glossy paint job or a candy coat.

Spray cans like Tamiya are lacquer based.

Mr. Color paints are usually lacquers or enamels, unless it's mr aqueous color then it's acrylic. The Tamiya paints on the rack in your model shop are generally acrylics. If you're unsure ask the staff to help you.

This little explanation was inspired by a pretty useful basic what's what link Gaijin Gunpla made me aware of:

http://www.naritafamily.com/howto/paint.htm

If you're after some intensive paint composition theory, you can read this:

http://www.swannysmodels.com/Alclad.html

Happy trails.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 08:53:08 PM by Sonar »
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Sonar

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Re: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2010, 01:34:34 PM »

Wow, no responses? Have I completely missed the mark there, or nailed it so thoroughly that everyone is speechless ;) ???

Hoardz01

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Re: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2010, 01:48:20 PM »

Just saw this sonar, great info and really helpful to a beginner like me. I am using the zippofluid/oils panel lining and it is coming along ok. I am not enjoying the Mr. Aqueios acrylic clear coats I am using though. They seem particularly weak/soft and don't do a lot of protecting. Seeing as we don't have the 'magical' future in aus, and my experiences with POG are less than promising, I was wondering what you guys are using for your clear coats? Assuming that the paint you are trying to protect is acrylic?
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Noless

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Re: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2010, 02:22:25 PM »

how did i miss this..., i guess i should leave a warning that if you use an acrylic top coat, the lighter fluid can eat through and get your paint beneath, i dont know if that was me not having a thick enough coat or not though,

i personally find working with lacquers is much nicer, but then again the fumes... but this is balanced off with the fact that it doesn't scratch off as easily, and is touch dry very quickly, note i say touch dry, best be leaving it overnight before you mask it or paint another layer on it.
Enamels i find are fairly nice to work with, but acrylics im not so fond of, and i tend to thin them with laquer thinner anyway so that they dry in a more reasonable time frame

most of this however will be personal preference and experimenting, i know that im not fully set on my painting methods just yet
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Sonar

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Re: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2010, 02:37:15 PM »

I use Mr Top Coat in flat and gloss. Lacquer top coat. What is this Mr Aqueous top coat you speak of?

There's another topic about Mr Top Coat here



Image from Gunpla-Inochi (BTW Mr Top Coat is not being discontinued. People started to wise up to online stores shipping compressed flammables and put a stop to it. The product is not discontinued, you just have to buy it in a brick & mortar store.)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 02:38:22 PM by Sonar »
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Noless

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Re: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2010, 02:41:31 PM »

mr top coat is acrylic, mr super clear is lacquer, all the tamiya ones are lacquer, though the lacquer ones warn you to not spray on top of acrylics, but i find you can, but in thin coats so you dont melt the paint beneath, though to do this i tend to decant the can and use my AB...
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Sonar

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Re: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2010, 02:44:55 PM »

Knowledge=dropped.

Cheers Noless.

;D

Vamp

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Re: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2010, 05:00:42 PM »

Haha, did I miss this post before. Anyway, Thanks Sonar for putting valuable information here.

As a newbie, I have done a lot of research before I started painting my Gunpla.
I found that, many people actually got confused by the name of the paints and not sure what type of the paint it is.

So, I would like to share this information here, hope this helps :)

In summary:

1) Gunze Sangyo Products:

Gunze Sangyo Paints:

Mr. Color - Lacquer Based
** The number normally start with no "letter", ie. Mr. Color 01 - Gloss White

Hobby Color - Acrylic Water Based -
** The number normally start with "H", ie. Hobby Color H04 - Gloss Red


Gunze Spay Clear Coats - Cans:

Mr. Top Coat - Acrylic Water Based
Mr. Super Clear - Lacquer Based


Other Products:
Mr. Sufacer - Lacquer Based
Mr. Base White - Lacquer Based
Mr. Resin Primer - Lacquer Based
Mr. Retarder - Lacquer Based

Thinners:
Mr. Color Thinner - Lacquer Based
Mr. Leveling Thinner - Lacquer Based
Aqueous Color Thinner - Acrylic Water Based



The following is a Color Chart I got it from http://plamo.outthere.info/forum/showthread.php?tid=771

Mr. Color Paint Chart - Lacquer Based
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hobby Color Paint Chart - Acrylic Water Based
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Other Products
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


2) Tamiya Paints:

** I personally not really familiar with Tamiya Paints, so, maybe someone can put in more information in?
This is all i know :)

Paints:
Acrylic Water Based - X series --> Gloss
                            - XF series -->Flat

Enamel Based - X series --> Gloss
                   - XF series --> Flat


Tamiya Paint chart - http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/feature.php?article-id=72

« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 09:52:14 PM by Vamp »
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Vamp

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Re: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2010, 05:15:41 PM »

i personally find working with lacquers is much nicer, but then again the fumes... but this is balanced off with the fact that it doesn't scratch off as easily, and is touch dry very quickly, note i say touch dry, best be leaving it overnight before you mask it or paint another layer on it.

I Personally agree with Noless. I prefer to use Lacquer based paint because it dry fast, and the paint is tough once fully cured.
However, it is very toxic stuff, need to be handled with cares.

Also, it is very hard to get such paints in Australia, well, maybe just can't get it in Adelaide.  The other major cities might have it.
I normally order it via online store XD

This is where I learn about Con and Pro of using different type of paints

Cody's Coop
http://codyscoop.com/ht-paint.html

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Sonar

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Re: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2010, 06:11:27 PM »

Yes! Great posts vamp. Thanks!

mokana_man

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Re: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2010, 06:44:44 PM »

Also, it is very hard to get such paints in Australia, well, maybe just can't get it in Adelaide.  The other major cities might have it.

I've been tipped off that Victorian Hobby Center will regularly stock and sell Mr. Hobby when it reopens 1st November. Hearns Hobbies stock the entire line of Alclad II but dame is that stuff pricey...

I brought back a heap of Mr. Hobby Gundam colors from Japan and some Gaia which is really nice Hong Kong paint...

Vamp: Thanks for posting this...
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 06:45:25 PM by mokana_man »
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Memento

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Re: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2010, 02:27:23 PM »

Hey, I was just wondering,
I'm buying a ton of Gunze paints and trying to follow the colour guide that comes with the Gundam, mixing and matching to get the right colours. I noticed most, if not all the paints are the gloss kind. Am I able to apply Mr Top Coat in Flat, in order to achieve the flat look, or would the gloss paints and flat coat not match well with each other and I'll end up making a disaster?
Thanks
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mokana_man

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Re: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2010, 05:02:06 PM »

Hey, I was just wondering,
I'm buying a ton of Gunze paints and trying to follow the colour guide that comes with the Gundam, mixing and matching to get the right colours. I noticed most, if not all the paints are the gloss kind. Am I able to apply Mr Top Coat in Flat, in order to achieve the flat look, or would the gloss paints and flat coat not match well with each other and I'll end up making a disaster?
Thanks

Applying Flat top coat in the end is fine but the color does change a little. If you do not like it you can apply a coat of clear gloss to return the original color.
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Re: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2010, 10:06:13 AM »

Hey everyone,
I'm planning to visit Hobbyco to pick up some Tamiya acrylic paints for air brush painting. I noticed on their website, the names for the paints are either 'Gloss', 'Matt' or just simply the colours name. I wanted to confirm if Matt is alternate name for flat? Also is it possible to mix gloss acrylic paint with matt acrylic paint? I'm trying to follow the color guide that comes with the Gundam, to get a specific color. Any help or opinion would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
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Hoardz01

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Re: Jan-ken-pon! What Paint Beats What Paint Beats What paint?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2010, 10:25:54 AM »

Matt is flat. You're on the money there, but in regards to mixing gloss/flat acrylics..... I am not sure, if you just test it out and spray a couple of plastic spoons for samples, it might be alright.
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