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Author Topic: Talk to me about priming  (Read 77708 times)

Sonar

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Talk to me about priming
« on: September 24, 2010, 02:38:41 AM »

Experienced Gunplars, talk to me about your priming preferences and methods.

Do you prime? Yes/No/Sometimes/Always/Some parts only??
Do you use your AB or spray cans?
What primer do you use, and if you AB, to what ratio do you thin it?
Do you prime the pieces disassembled as you would when you paint? Do you perhaps give them a blast while they're all still on the runners like the guy in the Plamo Tsukurou vid? (sorry I forget which one)
Do you sand between the primer and first paint coat in certain circumstances (like for gloss)?
Do you prime with black paint for metallics or lay a base coat of primer and then a black base?
Do you prime with grey primer and then use mr base white or something similar when changing to a lighter colour or lay the base white on sans primer?
Do different primers react with different paints? I've heard Mr Surfacer doesn't work too well with Alclad?

Large cans of Mr Surfacer (170ml) cost me about $20 a throw and coat about 3 MG's. I am looking for a better alternative and some knowledge on the subject. IIRC one of the members of the old forum used plasti kote plastic primer (400ml/$16 approx) from Bunnings. Anyone have any experience with it? There's also a Plasti Kote Polystyrene Primer which reads as though it could be alright. Plasti Kote Site

So far I subscribe to the method Hemish taught me when priming gunpla, and that is to blast the thing with primer while it is assembled for the test fit. More details about that below.

Drop some primer knowledge for me please  ;)

BTW I've just finished going through all my favourites from my personal youtube account and favouriting the Gunpla ones for the Gundam Australia youtube account, so if you're looking for some tutorials  or the plamo tsukurou vids there is a wealth of them there.

The following is the description I wrote for the youtube vid I've uploaded of me priming my MG God.

Quote
Priming my MG God Gundam: This is a cursory coat of the model while assembled for test fitting. This allows me to easily see which areas will be exposed and need the most attention when I disassemble the model for painting.

I am using Mr. Surfacer 1200, and I begin depressing the cap before the beginning of each strafe and releasing it after passing over the other side. (Apologies for the shakiness!)

I wear a mask, gloves, and an apron when painting.

I am using the airbrush to blow air and cure the surface of the primer quickly before dust particles can get stuck in it as I paint in my garage with the door open and there is usually particles about. Be careful when doing this. I made the mistake of letting moisture from the humid SEQ air build up in my moisture trap and wound up spraying out at high pressure and it left splatters in one of the other models I primed.

I have the God Gundam on a skewer attached to an alligator clip in the crotch for easy maneuverability.

My "booth" if you can call it that is just a plastic storage box. I haven't gotten around to installing a filter or fan in it yet.

You may notice the model is not perfectly covered, it isn't necessary as it is a cursory coat to help me better identify areas that will need attention and any flaws in my prep.

I try to keep the can a decent distance, say more than 20cm from the model where possible. I don't keep the cap constantly depressed. It is usually better to have to go back and touch something up than to have to strip it back because the paint ran or pooled from being sprayed too heavily.

Sonar

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Re: Talk to me about priming
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2010, 08:17:28 AM »

mokana_man

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Re: Talk to me about priming
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2010, 10:08:17 AM »

I use Tamiya Primer and air brush using the Citadel air gun. I like to dismantle the kit before priming and once dried I like to sand or re-putty ruff areas. I wear a gas respirator and use a Sparmax extractor both so I can paint indoors. I also happen to have a youtube video on me priming but its of a diorama piece.



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« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 10:10:19 AM by mokana_man »
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KaiK

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Re: Talk to me about priming
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2010, 12:55:05 PM »

Hi guys,

I always prime whenever I need to paint something. Paint generally does stick to the primer much better than to the plastic surface. I always use an airbrush for all my paint work since I have better control over the outcome. Spray cans are handy to use but I've never really liked the amount of waste they produce, I'm not talking about green house gases I'm talking about wasted spray due to a large spray cone. If spray cans are your preference then I would recommend using either Tamiya L primer or Mr Surfacer 1200. Both these primers are safe on all types of plastic and have a smooth, thin finish. Some automotive primers also work the same way but you should always test it out first unless you are willing to risk melting your model. If you go with the pots you can use Mr Surfacer 1200 or 1000. Another pot primer to look at is the Alclad grey primer which is a pre-thinned primer design for the alclad metal paints. When airbrushing a primer you will need the appropriate thinners (usually lacquer thinners). Mr Surfacer can work on a 50/50 mix of primer and thinners but will have a rough texture when it dries. I use a 30/70 mix of primer/thinners at 18 psi to ensure I get a smooth finish. I you start to get spider webbing (paint dries to much before hitting the surface) then you will either need to thin it down further and drop the psi or at a retarder to it (Mr Paint Retarder).

I tend to spend a long time during the construction phase to try and get things seamless and looking the best it can. This will always involve the use of putties and styrene sheets. Basic putties like Tamiya Basic Putty and Squadron Green Putty will be eroded by primers since the lacquer thinners also thin down those putties. If this occurs all you need to do is brush paint or airbrush some acrylic paint over the putty prior to priming. Most modelers will snap build prior to painting, I do this process myself and recommend it. You will be able to see all the areas that need work and correct them. I take the process further and glue down all the appropriate parts then prime. If there are parts that still need to remain separate (arm, leg joints) then I will mask the contact points with either masking tape or liquid mask. This ensures that the pieces will be able to fit together without a gap. I would not recommend priming individual parts unless they have been checked and have contact points masked, this is due to the primer making everything 0.01 mm bigger depending on the type of primer and how much is used. This problem will cause an offset by that amount and some parts will be difficult to fit together. Sanding after priming will decrease the problem but generally sanding after priming is always necessary prior to painting. Using fine grain sand paper will smooth sound the surface and clean up any lumps that have build up, also it reinforces checking each part as you move on. When using a gloss paint sanding becomes even more important since gloss finishes need a smooth surface or else you will get an orange peel effect. The same principle applies to metallic paint and is one of the reasons why Alclads use a gloss primer.

Base colours will affect the initial coat of paint. Two coats of paint will usually be enough to get the right colour to show, you can always go darker never lighter when painting. I tend to use grey primers for the entire model but will deviate if I'm using large amounts of white paint and metallic colours. If most of the model is white or a bright colour then I would use a white primer, if there are metallic areas then I would use a black primer, for a bright gold I use a grey primer also. Most types of paints will go onto primers without any issues and always plan the order of layers you will paint.   

Well this is my take on priming I hopes it helps, another thing always use protective gear when priming or painting and make sure you do it in a well ventilated area.

Happy modeling,

Kai.
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Sonar

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Re: Talk to me about priming
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2010, 04:45:07 PM »

Thanks very much for that Kai. Very informative!

leokc_ng

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Re: Talk to me about priming
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2010, 05:30:55 PM »

Q:Do you prime? Yes/No/Sometimes/Always/Some parts only??
A: Always, the advantage of priming is paint will stick better on the surface and identify defects on the surface of the model

Q:Do you use your AB or spray cans?
A: Always use can, unless you have dedicate airbrush for primer. Also is bit difficult to clean if you AB primer

Q:What primer do you use, and if you AB, to what ratio do you thin it?
A: Tamiya since i was in Aust, as it is easily available. Use lots of Gunz 10 yrs ago

Q: Do you prime the pieces disassembled as you would when you paint? Do you perhaps give them a blast while they're all still on the runners like the guy in the Plamo Tsukurou vid? (sorry I forget which one)
A: All depends on what you mean by disassembled. you should always fixed the seamlines before you prime your model. So maybe i would say is disassembled , but under the condition that seamlines are fixed

Q:Do you sand between the primer and first paint coat in certain circumstances (like for gloss)?
A: Yes, if is required i.e. when you saw defects after you prime, then have to fix it, prime again to see if it is fixed. as for gloss finish, surface preparation is really important, even you prime your model with 1200 grade primer, the surface is still smooth enough. that is when you need to send it down with fine sand paper before you AB with model.

Q: Do you prime with black paint for metallics or lay a base coat of primer and then a black base?
A: All depend on the finish you are expecting. but general rules are if you try to AB dark metallic color, or custom pearl candy color, I would use flat black. more vivid color like metallic red or pearl candy red as example i would use flat yellow or orange. One thing need to keep in mind is. Metallic or Pearl color a find flicks mixed with clear color, so finish will varies when you use different base color.


Q: Do you prime with grey primer and then use mr base white or something similar when changing to a lighter colour or lay the base white on sans primer?
A: Use grey most of the time these days. one tips of Airbrushing is if you use flat color, it usually cover the base color pretty well. as flat color had a stronger covering power than gloss color. So I don't really re-prime my model with white at all.

Q: Do different primers react with different paints? I've heard Mr Surfacer doesn't work too well with Alclad?
A: Never use Alcad so I can't comment on this. I only AB acrylic these days. Generally speaking, paint doesn't AB properly on primer usually a combination of incorrect pressure, or due to the strong surface tension of water tension (if you dilute acrylic paint with water, in this situation, try add a small drop of detergent to your paint).
Is been a while since i had this problem as i usually dilute my paint with methyl- spirit.

Hope it helps

Leo
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Sonar

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Re: Talk to me about priming
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2010, 07:32:49 PM »

Another really detailed response. Thanks Leo.

Thanks for the vid too Alan. Makes mine look like the afterthought that it kinda was. ;)

Hemish

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Re: Talk to me about priming
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2010, 08:50:54 PM »

Do you prime? Yes/No/Sometimes/Always/Some parts only??
Yes I prime whenever I paint a model

Do you use your AB or spray cans?
Spray cans, I havent had much luck with Mr Surfacer in the AB

What primer do you use, and if you AB, to what ratio do you thin it?
Tamiya cans

Do you prime the pieces disassembled as you would when you paint? Do you perhaps give them a blast while they're all still on the runners like the guy in the Plamo Tsukurou vid? (sorry I forget which one)
I prime my model when its snapped together after seam lines are taken care of, that way I know when I paint exactly what has to be painted and what I can get away with if something isnt 100%, though saying that these days I tend to make sure the paint apps are even across the model.
Example below


Do you sand between the primer and first paint coat in certain circumstances (like for gloss)?
Not usually, saying that though I havent gone for a super shine finish yet, so I imagine when I want to I would

Do you prime with black paint for metallics or lay a base coat of primer and then a black base?
Primer then base coats

Do you prime with grey primer and then use mr base white or something similar when changing to a lighter colour or lay the base white on sans primer?
Generally the Tamiya is a light grey, I used the white one once with some crappy results so I make sure I use the grey one.

Do different primers react with different paints? I've heard Mr Surfacer doesn't work too well with Alclad?
Alclad paints will generally want you to be working with Tamiya primers

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TheGhostofZeon

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Re: Talk to me about priming
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2010, 08:52:28 PM »

My turn to weigh in on the issue :


Do you prime? Yes/No/Sometimes/Always/Some parts only??
Yes always. The two reasons I have for priming are for better paint adhesion and a uniform colour to work from. It's amazing that just a little change in the base colour can effect the final coat. If everything is the same colour then it is easier to keep the top colours more consistent.

Do you use your AB or spray cans?


Mainly cans but occasionally I use the air brush depending what primer I can get my hands on at the time (cans or jar).

What primer do you use, and if you AB, to what ratio do you thin it?

Tamiya Grey type is my primer of choice. No need to thin it either. On the lookout for a primer that is almost if not the same as Tamiya brand but cheaper and more readily available to regional areas of Australia.

Do you prime the pieces disassembled as you would when you paint? Do you perhaps give them a blast while they're all still on the runners like the guy in the Plamo Tsukurou vid?

I would never paint on the sprue - there is just too much work involved to get it looking good. I always build, pull apart, glue, putty, sand, prime, check for errors, putty and sand (if required) and re-prime.

Do you sand between the primer and first paint coat in certain circumstances (like for gloss)?

Only if there is errors in the primer like pooling of paint or air bubbles.

Do you prime with black paint for metallics or lay a base coat of primer and then a black base?

Prime then black base - just as I would with any other paint as the primer helps it stick better.

Do you prime with grey primer and then use mr base white or something similar when changing to a lighter colour or lay the base white on sans primer?

Grey type primer and just use several coats of white colour rather than use a different primer. White is a difficult colour to work with but enough thin layers of it will result in a nice even colour. The trick is to make sure it is painted evenly.

Do different primers react with different paints? I've heard Mr Surfacer doesn't work too well with Alclad?

No idea. I have only used Tamiya and I have had no issues with any paint. But really, Alclad is meant for a black enamel base not direct on a primer (even though they are both lacquer based).

hoahoa

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Re: Talk to me about priming
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2010, 09:26:19 PM »

i swear i posted in this thread this morning. oh well.


Do you prime? Yes/No/Sometimes/Always/Some parts only??
Only when i want a nice finish or i'm doing extensive work on a kit.

Do you use your AB or spray cans?
I would like to use an AB but the bottles are near impossible to source. so cans

What primer do you use, and if you AB, to what ratio do you thin it?
Mr Surfacer 1000 if i can get my hands on it, really liking testors though.

Do you prime the pieces disassembled as you would when you paint? Do you perhaps give them a blast while they're all still on the runners like the guy in the Plamo Tsukurou vid? (sorry I forget which one)
give them a blast when assembled but individual limbs and whatnot.

Do you sand between the primer and first paint coat in certain circumstances (like for gloss)?
yep, if i want a finish to be overly glossy or metallic.

Do you prime with black paint for metallics or lay a base coat of primer and then a black base?
never really had the need to, maybe when i get around ot testing alclad.

Do you prime with grey primer and then use mr base white or something similar when changing to a lighter colour or lay the base white on sans primer?
base white, i tend to try and keep minimal layers.

Do different primers react with different paints? I've heard Mr Surfacer doesn't work too well with Alclad?
wouldn't be too sure, only thing i could see is that alclad could possibly be "hotter" than mr surfacer. e.g similar thing with trying to mix tamiya acrylics with mr hobby or gw. while it works, paint doesnt really like it.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 09:27:29 PM by hoahoa »
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Sonar

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Re: Talk to me about priming
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2010, 08:41:27 AM »

What an excellent response to this thread! Thanks Hoa, Hemish, and Scott! This has turned into a priming gold mine ;D

Shifty

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Re: Talk to me about priming
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2010, 09:28:14 AM »

Yeah some very helpful tips here and I will def be subscribing to the YouTube channel....
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mokana_man

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Re: Talk to me about priming
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2010, 03:34:32 PM »

Thanks for the vid too Alan. Makes mine look like the afterthought that it kinda was. ;)

No true, plus people need to watch and study as many methods as possible before they set on there own style. Keep making videos dude, if anything at least I enjoy them...

What an excellent response to this thread!

Might have to do a modeling survey every now and then...
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Noless

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Re: Talk to me about priming
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2010, 09:49:17 PM »

Before I begin i picked up most of my habits from gamera baenres site, and its a pretty good resource for all sorts of stuff http://gamerabaenre.com/primer.htm
when i prime i do a very thin coat everywhere first (priming for the primer almost ;)), and that allows more primer to coat the part later and stops paint from pooling, i really dont know how mokana_man avoids it, but im keen to see one of those citadel brushes now cause i do need a priming brush
also the same techniques of starting spraying away from the part and finishing off the part apply here too

Do you prime? Yes/No/Sometimes/Always/Some parts only??
If im painting i'll always prime

Do you use your AB or spray cans?
AB, i tried cans, and i just cant get any control from them, the overspray is huge and well it just annoys me, last time i bought a can of primer i ended up decanting it to use my airbrush...

What primer do you use, and if you AB, to what ratio do you thin it?
I use the mr Surfacer 1200, and i thin it with either mr hobby lacquer thinner or tamiya lacquer thinner, i find the general purpose stuff from the hardware store a bit too "hot" and that it can craze some plastics and also was melting some of my o-rings when i was cleaning my AB
I thin to the same sort of thickness i would for all my paints, so until the paint just coats the side of the glass jar when i swill it around (have a look at gamera baneres vids i followed that)

Do you prime the pieces disassembled as you would when you paint? Do you perhaps give them a blast while they're all still on the runners like the guy in the Plamo Tsukurou vid? (sorry I forget which one)
I build and remove seamlines as much as i can while still being able to pull it all apart to avoid masking and so that if there are moving parts, when i move the parts i dont see unpainted bits (if i'm making any sense at all here...) so its mostly disassembled as i would paint

Do you sand between the primer and first paint coat in certain circumstances (like for gloss)?
only if i put down too much primer, im already using a fairly fine primer so i dont really feel the need to sand

Do you prime with black paint for metallics or lay a base coat of primer and then a black base?
Prime and then enamel of lacquer gloss black for metallics

Do you prime with grey primer and then use mr base white or something similar when changing to a lighter colour or lay the base white on sans primer?
I find mr primer is already a fairly light colour as it is, but i havent done anything yellow or really light yet, so i dont know what i would do in this situation yet...

Do different primers react with different paints? I've heard Mr Surfacer doesn't work too well with Alclad?
Ive had no reactions with primer so far, i cant see there being a clash with mr surfacer and alclads cause ive used lacquer gloss blacks as my base for alclads and there was no problem, and mr surfacer is also lacquer based, it could be the simple issue of alclads being quite hot and if they are not allowed to dry between coats or sprayed on heavy then they can attack the layers beneath them, but thats the same for any lacquer paint
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random

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Re: Talk to me about priming
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2010, 10:21:52 PM »

G-Day all
Priming... whats to it? whats good? whats to look out for?
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